College Football, Florida Gators, Recruiting

The Five-Three Theory: A different approach to maximize Dan Mullen’s recruiting

Embed from Getty Images

Oliver is here

I had the idea for this article a couple of weeks ago as I was going over some recruiting numbers. But as often happens when you do this sort of thing as a passion project, life got in the way. Normally that means my engineering work, but in this case, the life that got in the way was the birth of my son, Oliver.

We are beyond thrilled that this little guy has made his way into our world, and that everyone is happy, healthy and sleepy. If you like what you read here at Read and Reaction, and would like to indirectly contribute to Oliver’s college fund, please consider supporting my work on Patreon.

Advertisements

Also, you may have noticed that the ads are back up on the site. Please only click once if you choose to click. I got put into Google jail last month because some of you clicked on the ads multiple times and they cited me for invalid traffic. I very much appreciate your support and enthusiasm though!

I do very much appreciate your support. It means a lot that you all consistently read my thoughts on the Gators program. Now, on with the show!

Market Inefficiencies

Back in 1997, Billy Beane was hired as the general manager of the Oakland Athletics.

Beane took the traditional route to the GM office, starting as the first overall draft pick of the New York Mets and then working his way up through the organization as a scout who eventually made it to the highest levels of the front office.

But Beane completely changed the way baseball rosters were constructed because of his work as GM. Part of that is because he is a really smart guy. But part of that is because constraints were put on him by ownership that asked him to compete with teams that were capable of spending way more money than Oakland was capable or willing to spend.

The result – as documented in the book and movie Moneyball – was the true birth of the analytics movement in baseball that would make Oakland a consistent contender with a miniscule payroll, and eventually would lead to Beane acolyte Theo Epstein helping end the World Series curses of both the Boston Red Sox and Chicago Cubs.

In 1996, the New York Yankees won their first World Series since 1978. From that point on, the Yankees decided to spend to win championships, whether that money was on Chuck Knoblauch, Hideki Irabu, or Roger Clemens. By 2001, the Yankees had a nearly $110 million payroll compared to just $34 million for Oakland.

Yet those 2001 Oakland A’s won 102 games compared to 95 for the Yankees. There clearly was another way to compete.

That way to compete was to find hidden value in players that other organizations were overlooking. In the case of baseball, it was looking for players who got on base a lot because that translated to runs, which obviously, is the point. But the industry was still focused on batting average and power.

That’s how Beane was able to coax 3.3 wins above replacement (WAR) from second baseman Frank Menechino for $225,000. Or trade for outfielder Terrance Long, who contributed 2.0 WAR for $241,000. Or sign amateur free agent catcher Ramon Hernandez (2.3 WAR) for $245,000.

That’s nearly 8 wins for less than 7 percent of what the Yankees paid Roger Clemens in 2001.

So why am I talking about baseball? That example is what comes to mind when I think of Dan Mullen and Florida competing with Alabama on the recruiting trail. Nick Saban has built a behemoth of a program that not only dominates the SEC, but casts a shadow across the landscape of the entire sport.

Just like the Yankees in 2001.

So are there any market inefficiencies that Mullen can exploit in recruiting to help even the playing field, much the way Beane focused on on-base percentage back in 2001?

I think there are.

Measuring Recruit Success

If you’re read my articles for any length of time, you know that I believe that recruiting matters.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure this out. After all, Alabama is the elite-of-the-elite when it comes to recruiting and just finished off their sixth National Championship since Saban took over in 2007. You have to pay attention to how it’s being done when a team is winning 46 percent of the titles in any sport.

But it’s not just Saban and Alabama anymore. Clemson is now repeatedly among the elite recruiting teams and, perhaps not coincidently, continues to make the College Football Playoff. The same can be said for Ohio State as well. Even the teams that have broken the complete stranglehold of the Tide have done so as elite recruiting teams (LSU in 2019, Georgia in 2017 (before choking)).

It’s also become pretty clear that Dan Mullen isn’t going to be able to go toe-to-toe with the recruiting behemoths as the head coach at Florida. There was hope that he might be able to elevate recruiting either by virtue of being at an elite blue-blood program or by winning early and often.

Well, he’s won a lot (29-9) in his first three years, and he’s done so at a program that has dominated the SEC in the not-too-distant past, yet his recruiting classes have averaged a player ranking (according to 247Sports) of 90.75, 90.56, 90.74 and now 90.38. That’s good recruiting, but it’s nowhere near the level of Alabama (95.00 in 2021).

So for the sake of argument, let’s stipulate that recruiting is necessary for winning. And let’s also stipulate that Florida isn’t going to recruit at the level of Alabama, or even Georgia and LSU. What’s Florida to do?

Well, if you’re going to find some sort of hidden inefficiency, you first have to understand how to measure recruit success. There are lots of ways to do that, but they are each problematic.

You could look at games played, but that doesn’t necessarily say anything about the quality of those games. You can look at stats, but how do you compare an offensive tackle to a running back? Instead, I think the only real way to compare success of recruits based on their rankings is to look at how often they are drafted into the NFL, and also how high they are drafted when they are selected.

Basically, the supposition is that if you are drafted and if you are drafted at a higher position, you have shown more on the field in college than your contemporaries.

So I went and looked at the top-500 recruits as ranked by the 247Sports composite for the 2013, 2014 and 2015 classes. I then looked at how often they are drafted and in what round, breaking the data up into 30-player segments (i.e. 1-30, 31-60, 61-90 and so on).

And I think this shows pretty clearly where there are some inefficiencies.

Percentage drafted vs. recruiting ranking from 2013-2015 recruiting classes (30-player bins, with datapoint at mid-point (i.e. 15 on x-axis = players 1-30). (Will Miles/Read and Reaction)

First the percentage drafted. What we see initially shouldn’t be much of a surprise. The top players get drafted a lot more often, but the degree to which that is true is pretty staggering. The top-30 players in the country are usually the 5-star recruits and 20 of the top-30 players were drafted in each year that I examined. Basically, you have a 67 percent shot of getting drafted as a 5-star recruit.

The drop-off is significant if your ranking drops to between 31-60, as those players “only” get drafted 39 percent of the time. That’s still a really good shot of getting drafted, but it pales in comparison to the top-tier guys.

The drop-off then occurs again very quickly and by the time we get to the 200th best player, there really is no difference in draft frequency for those players and players ranked in the lower 400s. The raw numbers really drive home the point. 56 players ranked 151-270 in those three seasons were drafted, compared to 49 ranked 271-390 and 48 ranked 391-510.

So once you get past the top-tier guys, there’s very little difference between a mid-tier 4-star recruit (ranked 200-300) and a high-end 3-star recruit (ranked 400-500).

But what about where they are drafted? Surely those mid-tier 4-stars get drafted much higher than the high-end 3-stars, right?

Well, not so much.

Average round drafted vs. recruiting ranking from 2013-2015 recruiting classes (30-player bins, with datapoint at mid-point (i.e. 15 on x-axis = players 1-30). (Will Miles/Read and Reaction)

Again, what we see is exactly what we would expect for the elite-ranked players. Those guys go early in the draft, with an average round taken of 2.7. This is where the players ranked 31-60 also start to differentiate, as they are taken with an average draft position of 3.1. But interestingly, there really is no difference in draft position from that point on.

The implications of these two charts are pretty significant.

What this suggests is that the areas where development can make the most difference is from somewhere around the 150th-200th ranked players and up. It also suggests that talent takes over for higher-ranked players, especially as you get to the elite-of-the-elite.

So a guy like Kaiir Elam (ranked 48th overall) has enough raw ability that he’s going to the league whether his coach is Dan Mullen or me. But Lamical Perine’s draft chances (ranked 493rd overall) rely heavily on his coaches’ abilities to maximize his potential.

Exploiting Market Inefficiencies

So this is where it gets interesting for me.

If you’re Dan Mullen and have supreme confidence in your ability to develop players, but you also can’t compete in the recruiting game on a player-by-player basis, how do you exploit this data?

I think you shift your resources to maximize the payoff, because just like the A’s under Beane as I described above, Florida is resource limited.

It’s not to the degree of the A’s, but Florida has worse facilities than teams like Alabama, Georgia and Clemson. The Gators spend less on a yearly basis than those teams too. It’s also pretty clear that spending correlates with recruiting, particularly at the highest levels.

In the 2017-2018 fiscal year, Florida came in ranked 12th in spending on recruiting at $1.15 million. Three teams that finished in front of the Gators that year in spending in the SEC? LSU ($1.2 million), Alabama ($2.3 million) and Georgia ($2.6 million). The Bulldogs and Tide were ranked #1 and #2 nationally  in spending and the gap has only grown since then.

Getting into an arms race with those two is just suicide, at least if you want to compete on a consistent basis. That means you have to do something different.

What is that something? Well, it’s what I’m calling the 5-3 Theory (because of its focus on 5-stars and 3-stars exclusively) and really just has to do with allocating resources in the most efficient way possible to make sure you get the most out of your recruiting program.

It consists of three rules:

  1. Dedicate 80 percent of your recruiting resources to the top-60 players in the country (Zone 1 players).
  2. Completely ignore anyone ranked 61-299 (Zone 2 players).
  3. Offer every player ranked 300-600 within a 300-mile radius of Gainesville (Zone 3 players).

Let’s go through the rules one-by-one.

Rule 1: Dedicate 80 percent of your recruiting resources to the top-60 players in the country

The first rule is pretty straightforward. These are the guys everyone is after, and they’re the guys that you absolutely have to have to win big. And since you’re competing with the huge budgets of Georgia, Alabama and Clemson ($1.8 million in 2017-2018), you have to focus your resources here.

Mullen has already done this through the transfer portal with the additions of Justin Shorter, Brenton Cox, Lorenzo Lingard, Demarkcus Bowman and Arik Gilbert. Now he has to do it with more regularity at the high school level.

He’s not going to be able to do it on a more regular basis without spending more there. So the solution is to shift the vast majority of his resources to those particular players. You’re not winning a championship without those players anyway, so if you miss out on a lower-ranked recruit or two because you’re chasing a Zone 1 guy, so be it.

Rule 2: Completely ignore anyone ranked 61-299

This rule is definitely a radical shift.

But here’s the deal. You have to find the resources to chase the Gilbert’s, Bowman’s and Gervon Dexter’s from somewhere. And the place to find those resources is to eliminate the players who give you a limited bang-for-your-buck compared to the amount of time and effort you have to expend on them.

A top-100 recruit is seen as a big deal in recruiting circles. So is a guy ranked 200 or even 300 because they qualify as a “blue chip” player. Indeed, teams with more blue chip players do win more than teams with less. But I think what the data I showed earlier suggests is that the success we see with more blue chips is because if each program is recruiting using traditional methods, then the program that recruits Zone 1 players the best is also going to recruit Zone 2 players the best as well.

What that means is that you’re again competing with Alabama, Georgia and Clemson (and their budgets) for the same players. That hasn’t been a winning solution for most programs recently, including Florida.

Rule 3: Offer every player ranked 300-600 within a 300-mile radius of Gainesville

So that brings us to rule three.

Alabama signed 27 commits to its record 2021 recruiting class. Only three of those commits were ranked below 300. Georgia signed 20 commits to its 2021 class. Only six of those commits were ranked below 300.

So by specifically targeting players in Zone 3 (ranked 300-600), you’re escaping the shadow of those recruiting giants and competing on a more level playing field.

Let me give you an example. Simeon Price (Pensacola, FL) was the 566th ranked recruit and 81st ranked recruit in the state of Florida. He went to Mississippi State. Savion Collins (Miami, FL) was the 575th ranked recruit and 82nd ranked recruit in the state of Florida. He went to FIU. Carnell Davis (WR, Melbourne, FL, 599th ranking) committed to Rutgers. Chamon Mateyer (ATH, Miami, FL, 370) committed to Cincinnati.

There’s no shame in losing a recruiting battle to Alabama or Clemson. But if you can’t beat out Cincinnati and FIU for in-state guys who should want to be Gators, then you have bigger problems than the Tide.

And the whole point of this analysis is that these guys are just as likely to perform as the players ranked significantly ahead of them. So you lose very little by focusing on this segment of players, but you likely have a much higher percentage to land the player (because you’re not competing against the big boys) and you can dedicate less resources than you would need to dedicate to a player ranked 120th overall.

This ensures you can focus on the guys who truly make a difference, while maintaining the depth of your roster necessary to weather an SEC schedule.

Applying this to Florida

I wish Florida could compete directly with Alabama and Georgia, but that just isn’t happening using traditional methods.

In some ways, Florida has already made a shift towards this strategy in the transfer portal, bringing in Zone 3 players in defensive tackles Daquan Newkirk and Anthony Shelton and then Zone 1 players like Bowman and Gilbert.

But if we look at where Florida’s recruits have ranked since Mullen took over in 2018, there is a lot of emphasis in Zone 2.

Histogram of Florida’s 2018-2021 recruiting under Dan Mullen. (Read and Reaction)

The Gators have only brought in four Zone 1 players (top-60), but have brought in 41 Zone 2 players (61-299) and 27 Zone 3 players (300-510).

Florida has a pretty good batting average with the Zone 1 players, as Kaiir Elam is going to get drafted, Chris Steele will too (though not for Florida, unfortunately), Gervon Dexter showed promise in 2020 and Jason Marshall is expected to be a starter day-one in 2021.

The record is a lot more spotty for Zone 2, as we would expect. Even the highly-ranked guys from the 2020 class (Derek Wingo, Jahari Rogers) haven’t gotten on the field all that much. From the 2019 class, Ty’Ron Hopper, Jaelin Humphries and Michael Tarquin have seen limited action. Lloyd Summerall hasn’t played much and Keon Zipperer has been stuck behind Pitts.

Mohamoud Diabate, and perhaps Khris Bogle, are the only players I would predict to get drafted from the eight Zone 2 commits in 2019, so somewhere between 12.5 and 25 percent (right where we would expect).

Compare that to the Zone 3 players, of which there were five. We have no idea what Dionte Marks can do and Jalon Jones and Chester Kimbrough are already gone. But I think Jaydon Hill (ranked 323rd nationally) has a chance to make it to the league.

Takeaway

The point isn’t that these guys are bad players. Far from it. Mohamoud Diabate is outstanding and I’m glad he’s on the Gators defense in 2021.

The point is that the hit rate on guys in Zone 2 isn’t appreciably higher than guys in Zone 3. Yet I guarantee you that the resource allocation is higher for Zone 2 players than it is for Zone 3 players.

And if you’re truly a great developer of talent like everyone suggests Mullen is (and I think his record suggests), then you should be able to get just as much out of Zone 3 players compared to Zone 2.

The real key here is that Florida isn’t getting enough Zone 1 players to compete with the big boys. Whatever the reasons for that are, it has to change. No amount of Zone 2 players is going to be enough to overcome the significant top-end talent advantage that the SEC elite have on the Gators year-to-year.

Sure, Florida may be able to compete every once in a while when the stars hit just right and they are able to cluster a highly-skilled set of recruits, but sometimes those clusters don’t happen and you end up with an elite offense and a defense that can’t stop anyone.

Better facilities might be a long-term panacea, but we’ve been hearing about facilities improving recruiting since before Jim McElwain came to town. The best the Gators have finished in recruiting in that time is ninth nationally and fourth in the SEC. The average finish over that time is 12.7 nationally and 5.9 in the SEC.

Mullen has only slightly improved those numbers, with a national average of 11.3 and an average finish in the SEC of 5.0.

Glass-is-half-full fans are right when they hear criticism of Mullen and ask those who criticize him who Florida coule replace him with who is better. The answer is, on the field I’m not sure there is anybody. But to fully take advantage of that requires a shift in thinking in the recruiting room.

I really admire what Vanderbilt has done this offseason. They went and hired Barton Simmons – who has overseen 247Sports rankings process since 2017 – as its general manager. Whether this works of not for the Commodores, they are trying something different understanding that Vandy has shown over multiple decades that it will struggle to compete just trying to rely on superior coaching with less talented players.

Florida is not Vanderbilt. But right now, the Gators aren’t all that close to Alabama either. To close that gap is going to require some creativity. It’s going to require thinking outside the box to ensure it is able to put the best team on the field.

That means focusing on – and landing – multiple 5-star commits each recruiting cycle. I think that also means de-emphasizing focus on 4-star recruits almost completely. And I think it means ensuring that every highly-ranked 3-star near the state of Florida is a lock for the Gators well before early signing day.

This will mean a break from traditional recruiting metrics. The services that rank overall classes aren’t going to speak highly of the Gators classes using the Five-Three Theory. In fact, a recruiting class like that will rank very similarly to the 21st ranked class that Jim McElwain secured in 2015 (2 5-stars, 2 4-stars and 17 3-stars).

Advertisements

But Antonio Callaway (341) was drafted. So were Chris Williamson and Jabari Zuniga. Kylan Johnson, Fred Johnson, Nick Buchanan, Rayshad Jackson and Luke Ancrum all played significant snaps for the Gators.

Nobody spoke all that highly of Billy Beane’s teams back in the early 2000s either. Moneyball picks up right after that aforementioned 2001 season, with the departures of Jason Giambi and Johnny Damon to free agency. Beane signed Scott Hatteberg (.374 OBP) for $900,000 as a free agent (and 3.3 WAR), providing almost as much production as Damon for more than $6 million less.

The A’s decided to do something different. The 2001 team with Giambi and Damon won 102 games. The 2002 team won 103 and Billy Beane had a book written about his methods.

Dan Mullen has a choice. He can continue to lose two out of three games to Georgia, continue to struggle against Alabama when he does get past Georgia and continue to try competing in an arms race that he isn’t capable of winning. Or he can try something different. I think it makes sense to give the Five-Three Theory a try.

Hopefully he’ll let me write the book about how well it worked out.

21 Comments

  1. Kristopher

    It all makes sense but unless I’m mistaken, I don’t believe the A’s have won a World Series in their current Money Ball model. Here’s to hoping the five-three method if ever employed yields championships in lieu of winning a lot of games and getting close.

    Good stuff Will.

  2. Erik Wells

    I hope Dan sends out a copy of this article if he decides to incorporate the system into the UF recruiting strategy. If he just does it and the class ranking drops significantly, Gator message boards are going to flip out. This also seems to go contrary to everything you’ve posted in the past about recruiting and development. I personally think UF is like Utah when Michael Jordan was in the NBA. Saban, and the University of Alabama, are just more committed to winning than UF. They spent more than most before Saban got there with mediocre results. I guess I’d point at UGA as my counter to your suggestion. Since ’17, UGA has had multiple top 3 classes and has regressed every season, while our middling classes have resulted in what I would consider better seasons barring the colossally bad ending to the season. Bama is just that good and will be until Saban retires or drops dead. We can only see how things shake out once he’s gone. Great article and it’s nice to see an out of the box approach. My concern is that the Bull Gators and the fan base would lose their minds because, this approach would probably take another three years to bear fruit…especially when Mullen and his staff appear to be system coaches, meaning players with seniority tend to play even if a younger player appears (to us fans) to be more talented. It would be like giving the coach time to get to ‘their players’ after taking over a new team. I personally think last year was an outlier on defense (as well as offense) and we’ll see a regression to the mean on both sides of the ball with more improvement on the defense than fall off on the offense (due to the majority of the blue chip transfers being on that side of the ball and going more to Mullen style offense with EJ and AR). Thanks for the great work and congrats again on the new human resource. Cute kid!

    This was long and I’m too lazy to spell/grammar check, sorry, not sorry ;~)

  3. CP

    Good article, very interesting data and takes….I do believe that the development of talent is what drives Mullen apart from some others, and it’s clear creativity and strategy will be critical if we really want to compete with Bama, Clemson, and UGA from a recruiting standpoint. The development of players takes time, especially when we aren’t landing as many 5 starts, so patience will be necessary for Mullen, and I think he’s earned that much with the winning seasons he’s put together. I would even say that if he and his staff focus more on the trenches, landing the big time OL and DL commits, this will move the progression along even more quickly (IMO). Congrats on the new addition, very cool.

    • Spike

      CP makes an interesting point off the articles interesting premise…this analysis by position / position worth. If you take each position and do the same charts above does it show anything that may make a difference in what positions / players to target? The nfl certainly values some positions over others…does it matter at all to the college ranks and success for a college team? Don’t know. It’s Wills job to find out. 😀

  4. Bill

    Outstanding work Will. My only question, isn’t Bama and UGA’s 80% still higher than UF’s 80% (recruiting money)? The only way to get over the hump is to get in the arms race. And yes we all caught your “traditional methods” comment, we know their shadow boosters are shelling out the cash and benefits in a greater way. I’d add that isn’t going to change when NCAA players start getting paid, the big money shadow boosters will still give out more. My only hope is things hit right to win or two titles, I’ve given up on being elite, so has UF admin, they are c

    • Comment by post author

      Will Miles

      When I talk about resources, I’m actually talking more about staff time/effort. Most of the cost associated with recruiting is travel and facilities. You’re not winning an arms race in facilities (Bama is updating while you are, but you’re behind and have less money to spend) so instead my suggestion is you focus on the things you can control – sink time, effort and money into the elite-of-the-elite and sacrifice by not putting those things into guys who are probably better, but not by a ton.

      • Bill

        I think you are spot on, invest heavily in the 5 stars and the 3 stars will likely be happy to wanted by a program like UF. You do a great job, facts don’t lie.

        • Matt

          This article seems to ignore the evaluation aspect. We look at the percentage that someone will get drafted based on recruiting services evaluations. Does a player who exceeds or lags their recruiting evaluation doing it because of coaching, or because the evaluation was off?

          What I’m getting at is I’m guessing Mullen doesn’t go after 4 stars and 3 stars because that’s how they ranked on recruiting services, he’s probably also doing his own evaluations. Maybe part of his success is coaching, but part might be on evaluating better than the public services the fans follow.

          If Mullen evaluates 4 star guys who he thinks are great and have a chance to land, go after them. If he evaluates 3 star guys and thinks they’re underrated, go after them too.

          I don’t know whether Mullen’s evaluations are close to what the recruiting services evaluations are, but it seems like that’s another key aspect of finding the diamonds in the rough.

  5. BravesGators

    I’m not sure where the A’s analogy fits. Plus, the only reason we’re really talking about Moneyball — a great book, admittedly — is because it’s a nice story but it completely ignores that they had a ridiculously cheap, elite rotation with Barry Zito, Tim Hudson, and Mark Mulder. The book never mentions them (though the movie does show a Tim Hudson-looking pitcher with a bad head and goatee), and most baseball analysts agree that that was the biggest piece of their success. The bit players definitely helped, but the Big Three gave them 18.2 bWAR in 2002 for three league minimums. That had way more to do with their success than squeezing out value out of Scott Hatteberg or their uniquely cheap bullpen.

    I would think that if you make the argument that Florida, despite its resources, is having to find value in the margins, that’s going to fuel a sentiment in Gator Nation that resources are being wasted. You’re right; we’re the Red Sox in the analogy. We can find value the margins while also building a team with close-to-the-top resources. But MLB is not structured like college football, and the rich can’t keep getting richer the way CFB programs can. You win the World Series, you pick at the back of the draft. You win the CFP, you are almost guaranteed a top 2 class and you keep on chugging.

    I think it’s pretty simple. Dan Mullen doesn’t value high school recruiting the way you do. He thinks having an elite QB, good-not-great HS recruiting, and filling remaining pieces in the transfer market is the way to go. Kirby thinks it’s all about HS recruiting. They have the same amount of national championship trophies.

    In the Oakland A’s analogy, the elite QB is like Mulder/Zito/Hudson. You’re consolidating value in the most important part of the roster while allocating almost no resources (a few scholarships to the QB room). HS recruiting is, say, the MLB amateur draft and how most MLB teams fill the majority of their pipeline. The transfer market is your Frank Menechino, Scott Hatteberg, Chad Bradford, and the other guys the movie/book talk about. And then it’s in this analogy that the Gators are the Red Sox because John Henry and Theo Epstein took their resources, added analytics, and won a championship. The analogy breaks down from here, but the Dawgs are like the 2010’s Yankees where they just thought resources would take them to the World Series, and of course, they did not.

    And as Florida excels at developing elite QBs, continues to wash out mediocre McElwain classes with good-not-great HS recruiting, and adds high-end blue chips in the transfer market, I think they’ll win championships like the Red Sox. And the Dawgs can be the Yankees, thinking they know it all and don’t.

    • Comment by post author

      Will Miles

      The concepts of squeezing out extra value in hidden places holds, even if you want to debate the specifics of Moneyball. And there’s really no arguing that Beane has competed (and the Tampa Rays more recently) using unconventional methods against teams with much more margin for error. Plus, the Gators are much more like the Red Sox competing against the Yankees than the Rays or A’s. I agree about the pitchers for Oakland, though part of extracting value is having a farm system in baseball. That doesn’t really exist in college football so the question is, where do you get equivalent talent for less resource allocation. This is my proposal to do so.

      And the worry I have is that your comment about “washing out McElwain classes” ignores the fact that Mullen’s aren’t that much better and Georgia’s and Alabama’s are way better than they were during McElwain’s regime.

      • BravesGators

        If you only look at high school recruiting to evaluate the two coaches, sure. I wouldn’t.

      • BravesGators

        I had a short comment that is stuck in moderation, and this one may get stuck in moderation as well, but this is my longer response:

        When McElwain was here, the only infusion of talent came via high school. No offense, but it’s kind of lazy to say that McEwlain and Mullen have recruited similarly or the same. The goal of “recruiting” is to keep and improve the quality and quantity of talent coming into the system. When that’s the goal, even the mere mention of the word “recruiting” is insufficient. There’s an equation: HS recruiting + transfers – attrition = talent level. We know Dan has done a really good job bringing in transfers, but in the last 2 years, he’s also done a tremendous job of avoiding attrition the way other programs have not. Some is his own doing, and some is Mac’s; Mac’s juniors even with Mullen’s development aren’t bolting to the NFL at the frequency other schools’ juniors are. Have you noticed that we’re losing very blue chips from the 2020 squad? There’s someone to blame for that, and he has popcorn teeth.

        Accordingly, since Dan has done such a good job on that equation, especially based on the hand he was dealt, that’s why we’ve seen the talent composite go like this:

        2015: 15th
        2016: 16th
        2017: 17th
        2018: 12th
        2019: 15th
        2020: 7th

        A lot of the noise in the numbers can be explained by the fact that we had 2 transition classes in a 5 year period, but Florida is beginning to really climb the talent composite in Dan’s 3rd year, and it looks like it’ll continue. LSU, Clemson, and Texas are ahead of Florida in 2020, and it looks like at least Texas will fall behind Florida this year. Jim McElwain was not headed in this direction had he stayed the coach at Florida, so I don’t see how you can compare the two.

        • Bill

          Their not bolting from UF early for the NFL is not a positive but a negative.If they are good enough, they are largely declaring. Mullen has to spend years developing players, while better recruiting schools pump out draft picks. We bang on UGA for not developing players for the NFL but they get many blue chips highly draft. The NFL pick machine schools are a huge selling point to recruits. These kids want to be multi-millionaires even more than they want rings or degrees. Many of these kids grow up poor dreaming of being rich and pulling their families and friends out of poverty. The rings are the cherry on top, Bama not UGA lol

  6. Fred

    Will;

    Congrats on your new born! Greatest honor in life is being a Dad, your example makes Oliver proud!

    Thought your article was spot on, again! The Rays are another current iteration of the original MoneyBall paradigm. It works, maybe not every year but over time it’s consistent.

    With regards to CDM’s philosophy and performance, spot on – he believes in his systems of development and on the field performance. It was interesting to check out the rosters of the Bucs and Chiefs Sunday. Loaded with kids from the SEC (24); LSU had 6, Mississippi State had 4, and the Gators 2. My point is the LSU kids were primarily 4-5 star and the Gators/Miss St not so much. Which says a lot about Mullen’s developmental program at MSU.

    There is another issue in recruiting and it’s getting kids in school at UF (and Vandy). The requirements are markedly different and whether we as fans get frustrated with the administration with putting some handcuffs on recruiting the fact is they are primarily focused on a Top 10 academic and research institution. CDM has offered kids he knew would not be accepted into school, one of whom chose to stick with the Gators go to JC and return this fall.

    Keep up the great work! It great to read articles that provide a different perspective, along with the data.

    All the best!

  7. Randy

    Firstly, Congrats to your and your family for Oliver’s safe arrival.
    Your article makes a lot of great points. The best was trying to keep as many Florida recruits in state as possible and coming to UF.
    I do wonder how many recruitnics will be jumping from rooftops with the lower composite recruiting rankings.
    Also, I wonder if having success with more in state recruits, albeit lower tiered, would eventually lead to the higher ranked in state players coming to UF.
    Thoughts?

  8. Roger Austin

    Will,
    Congrats on Oliver! That’s great. And I like your 5-3 Theory. If the goal is to organize and execute around priorities, you have to know what your priorities are. And putting more money and effort into 5s seems to be the way to go (who wouldn’t want to play for Dan Mullen?). There would be a cost to doing this and you’ve identified and defined it quite persuasively; seems a great tradeoff to me. Go Gators!

  9. Stephen Batey

    A revealing article, thanks for keeping it “Cliff Note” level. At this time there is a concerted effort to bring all sports facilities to much higher level, as I do believe UF has been the #1 SEC sports program 24/25 years (close enough) so I am confident we will maintain the overall excellence. For football we do seem to have recurring
    handicaps…stellar academic requirements and a commitment to the AAU. To be a believer in your “formulas” all can be factor in for best direction to proceed. Such as “EOL” end of life. Show where #5s are after their final year, the ones for any number of reasons do not get drafted, to the new recruits and their daddys and mommas. Let that be known, especially with UGA. Possibly the number of players who return for their degrees. Play to your strength. It maybe difficult to quantify and I am possibly way behind on this pitch. Good Luck to Oliver and you .

  10. Darrick

    If I recall correctly, this is basically how Clemson built their roster when they won their first natty: a few high level recruits (especially at qb, though we don’t need that with Mullen’s coaching probably) and a bunch of low 4 star and three star recruits. I think this strategy makes a great deal of sense. If you can get a couple of top 50 players per year out of high school, and keep using the portal to pick up guys like Shorter, Bowman, Cox, you should have enough top talent to compete for championships, given how well Mullen develops and utilizes players on offense. However, I’m still not sold they can pull it off until they can get someone on the defensive side of the ball who maximizes his players’ strengths the way Mullen does on offense. Just think Grantham is too much of a liability, even if they increased the level of elite talent they have on the roster.

  11. Great article. I have a few thoughts. You’re spot on with all of this info.

    As far as recruiting budget, we could spend more but we are also in such a hotbed location in our backyard that some of our expenses aren’t as much because of our fantastic location. I know Georgia, Bama and LSU are also in good areas but we are probably better. We can be in South Florida in no time and a quick car ride costs next to nothing. Apparently our own private UF charter jets costs us less than most schools annually who have to lease or rent jets regularly.

    I love your plan to deal with Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State and Clemson. Clearly Mullen is a superior coach but average recruiter. In theory it’s good. However in practice I’m not sure how they could realistically do this. Say they are on the recruiting trail and are very high on some very talented 4 stars who also have Florida high on their list. Will Dan and staff just ignore them to cast a wide local net? No, the answer is always no.

    Imagine that actual scenario playing out. The UF coaches goal is bring the most talent to Gainesville, not see who they can get to The League. Those seem like similar goals but they are actually not aligned necessarily. In theory yes but in practice, it’s not going to happen.

    The portal seems to be Dan’s strength and I’m going to bet on that being our best bet to even the playing field for us. Bowman, Gilbert, Shorter, Grimes, Cox, Jefferson… The list is a great one.

    Teams like Georgia and LSU seem to lose guys because with so much talent they can’t start everyone. I know that’s a great problem to have and I wish we had that problem. I feel like we are on the good side of the portal because of our recruiting prowess.

    The thing about the movie Moneyball I didn’t like is how they almost completely ignored the Cy Young Ace they had and the MVP Tejeda. I mean I liked the movie but if you know the entire story they weren’t the bad news bears. They had lots of talent. But they did an amazing job getting roster spots to compensate.

  12. Andrew

    A lot of recruits say Florida is among the schools recruiting them the hardest and yet they still don’t come here. I’d argue that a big part of the problem is not resource allocation but rather that Mullen is not a natural salesman.